LostKnightsRPG.org

[Liquidprism]

Command/Tactics

Okay, I think I have a general idea of how I think this should work. BTW I reread Command, and I could have sworn it did something else entirely. Maybe it was a house rule or something, but I remember it being used to allow a ship with lots of systems to be used more efficiently. I don’t remember the exact rules, and I don’t know where they were written (if they were at all) any help here would be nice.
As it sits the skills belongs under Manipulation, cause its kind of a worthless skill. Anyway, the following idea is for Tactics. I’m not sure if I like having this skill usable for small personal scale skirmishes, but let me know what you think.

Tactics requires a variable amount of time to use. It has specialties as listed in the main rulebook (p. 47 if anyone cares). The basic roll is Moderate, this roll, is modified by a number of situational effects.

- Knowledge of the target/enemy: Basic knowledge of what/who is being fought.
Unknown- +10 to difficulty
Slight: +3 to roll
Basic: +5 to roll
Familiar: +10 to roll
Detailed: +20 to roll

-Knowledge of the terrain/environment/area: Basic knowledge of the local environment around the battleground.
Extremely Alien: +20 to difficulty
Unfamiliar: +10 to difficulty
Slight: +3 to roll
Basic: +5 to roll
Familiar: +10 to roll
Detailed: +20 to roll

-Time taken to plan: These are purposefully a bit vague as it’s hard to create a detailed time-table to work with. It caps out at a year, because I figure keeping a plan together longer than that just seems silly.
During Combat: +10 to difficulty
Several Minutes: +3 to difficulty
Up to half an hour: +3 to roll
Up to Several Hours: +5 to roll
Up to Several Days: +10 to roll
Up to 6 Months: +20 roll
Roughly a Year: +30 roll

-Whether outnumbered/out-classed, and by what degree: How hopeless the elements of the battle seemed stacked against the character’s side. This one is a bit relative, but t should be included imo.
Highly in Allies’ Favor: +10 to roll
Slightly In Allies’ Favor: +3 to roll
Slightly In Enemies’ Favor: +3 to difficulty
Moderately In Enemies’ Favor: +5 to difficulty
Highly In Enemies’ Favor: +10 to difficulty
Seemingly Hopeless Odds: +30 to difficulty

So after the roll and its modifiers have been determined the roll is made. The amount by which the roll exceeds the difficulty determines a bonus granted to the character. This bonus is used for several things.
0-5: +1
6-10: +1D
11-15: +1D+2
16-20: +2D+1
21-25: +2D+2
26-30: +3D
31-35: +3D+1
36-40: +3D+2
41+: +4D

This bonus is used in several ways. The bonus is applied each Initiative roll the character’s side makes during the designated battle. Also the character may choose a number of skills equal to the number of whole dice in his Tactics skill. He may then distribute an amount of points equal to bonus amongst those skills, putting no more than 1D+1 in any one of the skills chosen. Allies following the plan receive the designated bonus to those skills, for the duration of the battle.

This is my basic idea for how this power should work. I’m gonna’ try and work on making the Command aspect of this power a bit more useful. Let me know what you think.

[Liquidprism]

I found the rules for Command. Apparently the skill has a 'Leadership' type effect, allowing a character to increase the over all effectiveness of several individuals cooperating at the same task. So a group of stormtroopers with a commander could all take a single action with an increased die code to shoot at a single character. Along the same vein the Commander of a star destroyer could roll command to increase the effectiveness of a bunch of turbolasers by having the crew combine fire on a single target.

The rules are a bit convoluted, but I actually like them over all. The page these rules are on is 82-83 of the main rulebook. The rule is called the 'Combined Actions Rule'. Anyway.... THis leads me to further believe that Command and Tactics should be separate skills. For balance issues if nothing else. THey do functionally different things, and provide bonuses to combat situations. One should be under Knowledge, and the other under Savvy. This is pretty much what I think, but if people feel different let me know, its worth discussing imo.

[rydi]

I'll look at it. I'm more an more becoming a fan of keeping dice-adding skills in Knowledge (provides a very nice balance, and makes it suddenly much less useless).

Command is also not just a function of Savvy, or a Manipulation ability, as it is grounded in an understanding of tactics and knowledge of capabilities, meaning that a dumb guy that is good at getting people to follow orders would not necessarily be a good at producing synergy in a group of followers (telling someone to "shoot the bad guys" is far different from convincing a group of followers to coordinate an attack on the super star destroyer across the way).

As far as separating the two... I need to look at the command rules, but it could easily just be another function of the skill.

The numbers seem a bit high on Tactics, and should probably decrease a tad, though they seem mostly ok... I'd like to see it in play. Slight familiarity should be a +0 to rolls.

The effects of tactics confuse me a bit, and I think I want them to be a bit more simple ("take x skills, split up y bonuses (none of which may be higher than z), after making a T roll modified by p, q, r, s, and a, b, c..." seems a bit much)

I'd also like to see these numbers for the other skills under knowledge as well.

[Liquidprism]

The numbers I used (just FYI) are designed from the modifiers given to Force power activations due to proximity/relationship. They get big fast, and are really swingy. It seems like tactics should kind of be that way, but I guess all we can do is try and play test it to see.

I know it does seem a bit convoluted, but you are giving a numeric bonus to a group of peoples die codes. Thats super powerful, and for a skill to do that is really kind of gross. Just something to think about.

Oh, and as for Command, I am more convinced than ever it needs to be a seperate skill, mainly because letting tactics do what it does, and letting it do what Command does is far to much influence for one skill to have. Putting it under Knowledge or Savvy is up for debate, I dont really care and can see it both places for multiple reasons.

[rydi]

if you limit the bonus to either/or, you actually LIMIT the power that can be added by skills. Separating them allows for the two to be applied together for larger enhancement.

I'll see what people like when next we meet. The only thing I'm adamant about is not further enhancing Savvy, or the Manipulation skill. The rest I don't really care about. I do think that the wording should be a tad more streamlined though, not sure on the limits. I'll contemplate when I have more time/willpower.

[Liquidprism]

Cheyne wants to add a caveat to melee weapons that creates a 'strength requirement' to use them. Im not sure how I feel about this. I don't think its very cinematic, however, I do see why he feels the desire.

My idea is short and simple, and doesn't require personally editing every published weapon scattered throughout the D6 publications. it is as follows.

In order to use a melee weapon a character must have a Physique score equal to that weapon's damage bonus (this is the amount listed after 'STR' in the text). If a character's Physique does not equal or exceed this amount, then any skill rolls made to use the weapon are made with a penalty. The penalty is equal to the difference between the two indicated die codes (this penalty is taken directly out of the skill code before any rolls are made).

That is the extent of it, and it will probably read very close to that if added. Just wanted ask and get some feed back. I can't believe I did this... I swear to god. I said I wasn't going to write this out.. but here we are. Freakin' rules, its like homework I swear to god. We really opened a pandora's box with this one. In a month I'm going to be rewriting the whole main rule book page by page, just you wait and see. Wait... you're still here? Why are reading my rant, go vote.

[rydi]

like i tried telling you last night, that is a nice and simple rule, but it may be complicated by things like the fact that a vibro knife does more damage than a heavy club, despite it being lighter. Thus, a weak guy can pick up and use the club just fine, while the vibro knife is too unwieldy. That would defeat the purpose of the rule entirely.

I don't know if this is an actual issue though, as I don't know the damage tables very well, but I think it's likely. Another issue would come up if you modded your sword to do higher damage... just because it's sharper, doesn't mean you need to be stronger to wield it.

As an alternative, you could just say that heavy weapons (both big ass guns and things like axes) require phys 3, and that some alien weapons req physique 4-5 to use. Also possible to categorize them into a tiny table that can then be used as guideline for most situations.

Oh, and redefining every item in the game wouldn't be a horrible thing btw. You can get right on that...

[arete]

Just subtract 1d from the requirement on vibroweapons. Generally they do 1d more damage so that would even them out. I am also against have a weapon restrictions outside of the common sense rule.

[Liquidprism]

I get what your saying Cheyne about vibro-weapons, and damage mods as well, and your right. Fuck, I don't want to work on this....

Physique Required: 1D- Small Size- Knives, and Pistols
Physique Required: 2D- Moderate Size- Blaster Rifles, Flamethrowers, most Rifles, Bowcasters, Swords
Physique Required: 3D-Large Size- Light Repeating Blasters, Support Machine Guns, Axes/Spears

The difference between the required Physique, and the character's physique is applied as a minus to skill rolls using the weapon. Us common sense when figuring out which category a weapon belongs under. Some axes are smaller than others and thus might only require a Physique of 2D for instance.

Furthermore a weapon that would normally require two hands to use, can be wielded one handed at a penalty of -1D to skill rolls made using the weapon in such a way. Use common sense when determining if a weapon should 'require' two hands to use. This would include most rifle type weapons, support weapons, and both pole-arms, and large melee weapons.

[Liquidprism]

Im thinking of letting non-specialty Force Skills act just like regular skills in every way as far as training and improvement go. I cant really find a compelling reason to keep such harsh training rules. Im okay with powers that require a specialty requiring extra training (this will help keep power creep in check), but once characters have skills, and specialties it doesn't seem like they should be that much harder to train up than any other complex skill. The fluff certainly doesn't support such a theory. Characters in Star Wars train up really fast, just like in any other cinematic setting, and it doesn't seem to matter if they are using Force Skill, or regular ones.

Anyway, I am thinking I will try it in the game. I'm not sure what you guys want to do as far as actual rules go. Im just throwing this out there.

Something else I want to address, is modifiers for Force Powers. I know Steven has professed a real dislike of the modifier charts (especially for relationships) in the past. Cheyne also seems to think they are a bit harsh. I am going to go over them, and see what I can do. I am not personally all that turned off by them. I feel they are harsh, but see reasons for them to be so. Anyway I will look at them and post a modified modifiers chart pretty soon. I would like to know what other people think about the modifiers charts btw.

The only other big thing I can think of is formalizing rules for time spent on tasks such as training, building, etc.. I will write something up for this as well and post it for comments. Suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks.

[Liquidprism]

Force Power Modifiers

I think that distance is probably okay how it is. Trying to affect distant targets with the Force should be pretty tough, and something only the most powerful and skilled characters can do.

Proximity (Revised)

The Proximity chart tops out at a +30 to difficulties when using a power across Star Systems. This to me is reasonable. I think that touching should probably add a bonus while line of sight acts as baseline. So I’m going work from that premise, especially since it seems like a +2 diff is so minor it probably never gets used anyway. I know I’ve never calculated it in (either for or against my players).

Touching: +3 to roll
Line of sight, but not touching: 0
Not in line of sight, but 1-100 meters away: +3 to difficulty
101 meters to 10 km away: +7
11 to 1,000 km away: +10
Same planet, but more than 1,000 km away: +15
Same star system, nearby planet: +20
Same star system, distant planet: +25
Neighboring star system: +30
Close by star system, but not neighboring: +35
Distant star system: +40

If you can see the individual you are contacting, such as through a holoimage, reduce any modifiers for distances beyond 10 km by +5, and modifiers for distances beyond 1,000 km by +10.

Relationship (Revised)

This is the chart about which people have expressed the most concern. As previously stated I see very good reasons fluff wise for the numbers to be this high. However I will attempt to tone it down a bit. I really believe trying to affect strange aliens using the Force should be harder. The Force is very user-centric.

User and Target Are:

Intimately familiar: +10 to rolls
Good friends: +7 to rolls
Friends: 3 to rolls
Acquaintances: +0
Casually acquainted: +3 to difficulty

User has:
Seen the target before: +7 to difficulty
Knows target by reputation: +10 to difficulty
No knowledge of the target: +15 to difficulty

A character may choose a number of Races equal to the number of Dice in his Sense die code, these are the races of the galaxy he is familiar with. If a character is familiar with an individual he is affecting with a power modified by relationship he uses the difficulties listed. However, if the character is unfamiliar with the race, then he receives an addition +5 to the difficulty of his rolls. As a character gains more dice in Sense he may add new races. A character must have a reason to be familiar with a race in this way.

[Liquidprism]

Here is the newest version of Tactics

Tactics is used to enhance Initiative, and the character’s choice of either attack, or reaction rolls for every ally (including himself) that follows his plan, for the duration of a combat. This choice must be made before the roll. A character may reroll Tactics during combat, using new modifiers based in the changing circumstances, however the results of the new roll must be kept.

The bonus granted to the listed rolls is granted according to the success chart below.

Tactics requires a variable amount of time to use. It has specialties as listed in the main rulebook (p. 47 if anyone cares). The basic roll is Moderate, this roll, is modified by a number of situational effects.

- Knowledge of the target/enemy: Basic knowledge of what/who is being fought.
Unknown +6
Slight +0
Basic +3
Familiar +7
Detailed +10

-Knowledge of the terrain/environment/area: Basic knowledge of the local environment around the battleground.
Extremely Alien +20
Unfamiliar +7
Slight +0
Basic +3
Familiar +7
Detailed +10

-Time taken to plan: These are purposefully a bit vague as it’s hard to create a detailed time-table to work with. It caps out at a year, because I figure keeping a plan together longer than that just seems silly.
During Combat +10
Several Minutes +3
Up to Half an Hour +0
Up to Several Hours +3
Up to Several Days +7
Up to 6 Months +10
Roughly a Year +20

-Whether outnumbered/out-classed, and by what degree: How hopeless the elements of the battle seemed stacked against the character’s side. This one is a bit relative, but it should be included imo.
Highly in Allies Favor +10
Slightly in Allies Favor +3
Slightly in Enemies Favor +0
Moderately in Enemies Favor +7
Highly in Enemies Favor +10
Seemingly Hopeless Odds +30

So after the roll and its modifiers have been determined the roll is made. The amount by which the roll exceeds the difficulty determines the granted bonus to Initiative, and actions of the chosen type.
0-5: +1
6-10: +1D
11-15: +1D+2
16-20: +2D+1
21-25: +2D+2
26-30: +3D
31-35: +3D+1
36-40: +3D+2
41+: +4D

[rydi]

Just a few general responses, not interested in dialogue

1)make a force trait that gives a connection between two people (like luke/leia or jacen/jaina)

2)i still think that the relationship mods are a bit high.
If you can only use telepathy on your sister, while touching her inappropriately, the power isn't worth much, and the fun of having it is reduced.

3)remember that the game assumes dice pools capping out around 10 for pc's for the majority of their careers (yes, I know you don't assume this, but the numbers do). Designing things that, on average, won't even activate with 10D seems kind of pointless.

[Liquidprism]

Hmm, I am not sure what to say. I guess If there isn't going to be a discussion I should be brief:

1) I don't know what you mean... there is a power called Force Harmony that pretty much covers the the stuff they do together (as much as anything in D6 covers the Force, which isn't saying a lot).

2) We will just have to disagree I guess.

3) Okay, I know this, but noted.

[Avilister]

Obviously, I also think relationship mods are overblown. In my opinion, the mods should only apply positively to very close family and friends, and negatively to extremely strange individuals regardless of race (for example, almost no one would get a penalty against humans, as they're very common and most inhabitants of the galaxy are at least vaguely familiar with them).