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Thael wrote:if we REALLY want to be silly then we can have them recombine in a different configuration for different things.... (And I will form the Head!)

I'ma leave my giant robots in Exalted, thanks :P

I'll form the taint...

I am finishing my character now sort of. Cheyne has helped me see the wonderful path of pointage. Is Racial Memory dumb? I was thinking of it sense my character will have some traits I've mentioned as atavistic in my new improved background which I will post soon. Then I'll look at ship design.

I don't think the traveller builder can handle a flying space robot very well. With a big mothership you could use a 'vehicle bay' comprising 20% of the total mass, and then as large a hangar as you can afford. before that becomes feasible we really need to flesh out the automation system, otherwise you'll have hundreds of people who just sort of sit around all day eating and breathing and taking up space, but not doing anything meaningful. If you guys want to deal with multiple light cruisers and a capital, we're going to need to look at 8 billion seriously instead of 3. fuck it. 10 billion. If you can't build the ship of your dreams with 10 bil, you're not trying hard enough. Now, if you finish below 10 bil and equip everything as you want it, make sure to give me the number that you finished on.

"why would we ever spend less?"

Well that's simple. I'll base your encounter difficulties on two things, for personal encounters I'll determine difficulty based on character point totals, for space encounters I'll base it on percentage of total budget. So, a 'very hard' encounter might have an equal or greater budget. Which could easily turn into a carrier and a swarm of heavy fighters. So, if you don't 'need' the 10 billion budget, and just wind up squandering it, then you hurt yourself in the long run. I've just ran some figures through my builder, and a 20,000dTon mother ship with a vehicle bay of 4000 dTons and a hangar of 4000dTons costs around 5 billion, and comes with a jump drive, 50 dDR of armor, and a 400 dDR shield. Which is not very good at all given its tonnage. It can make *almost* 1 G of thrust. Which is borderline joke. Course, it has almost 7000 spaces of cargo, which after whatever housing or automation comes into play could be 6000 spaces, each with 5 tons, do the math and you'd have a place to store all your crap, including ammo and spare parts, which would lighten your two cruisers and therefore improve their performance. You'll have a better idea of what you want to do once you work with the builder for a while. still, two nice light cruisers could fit into the remaining budget relatively easily, especially without the burden of a jump drive.

So when are you going share this monstrously useful and desirable spreadsheet you mastermind of calculations and logic

Thael wrote:So when are you going share this monstrously useful and desirable spreadsheet you mastermind of calculations and logic

I'll send it, but it's not done yet. whenever there's a question mark next to a field or a field is entitled "selection" it's looking for a 1 or a 0. I found that to be the easiest way to automate things that are either present or absent. Use the fields in yellow to enter your data. There may be some errors, I have found a few so far but haven't thoroughly debugged it. I'll send you updated versions as I get them. I'll send it to your yahoo thael.

i don't think you should base difficulty on our ship purchase cost. i think you should just have stuff happen as you feel like it.

and the reason i wanted an extra ship was for the jump drive. why would this huge, rich, powerful galactic federation send only one ship? Why a cheap one? and why wouldn't they at least send a small, super fast, cloaked craft behind the other one to report back if something happened?

the did, that's the 'backup ship', it has as a requirement that it's cloaked. If your ship blows up it comes to find you.

ah. if it were me, i'd program it to run like hell and leave us to die, but save the galaxy by giving it early warning of its impending doom.

well, I've put some thought into this for a while, so I'll just out with it.

There are three reasons that we are using the traveller ship setting and TL10.

It's already made, so I thought it would be easy to use. It's not.

TL 10 gives *some* room for technology as treasure

Traveller is built for TL10, though it features TL 11 in a few places compared to ultratech it is relatively undeveloped.

Here are the cons with using both TL10 and Traveller

It's too easy to upgrade your character to TL11, in which case a TL10 ship holds you back instead of facilitates your progress.

It's complicated as fuck, and I'm still sure I've done something wrong in the builder.

So far, I think I'm the only one who has put any time into learning how to build ships in traveller. Force screens are broken, and everything is really gritty.

There is a solution to this, and I don't particularly relish it.

I could retool the basic mechanics of the Traveller system, using it as a guideline, and give you guys an excel book that would include TL9 - 12. You would have a budget again, but it would be relative only to Ultratech. And you could build your ship however you want, and I would make it fairly easy. It would take me a day or two, and it would not happen until after exams are over. It would let you build your ship on the cheaps and make it huge, very expensive and make it small, with a lot of variety in it that traveller doesn't approximate, and you could blend tech levels. Say, a TL9 hull with a TL12 probability drive.

You guys are right about some of the things you've noticed, the setting, the GF, has two main characteristics that I have overlooked. One, they haven't been at war for millenia, so probably wouldn't have a clue how to build a warship, and two, the basic premise is a coming together of the technological, and non-technological races of the GF to build an emissary. That's the mission, to go represent the GF to the people of whoever is out there, and help them do whatever it is they asked for help doing.

Honestly, I've already had to patch the traveller system two or three times to be able to handle what we're doing, this has offset the built in balance to the system. Armor would not be as expensive if shields were available, and how the fuck do I build a matter transporter, what I did was rather quick and dirty.

So, I'd be happy to build the builder, as long as that's what you guys want. I may even convert to points, which could be converted back to go shopping for gear out of ultratech, but would be easy to keep track of. Say, a thousand points. And you allocate them for a certain amount of gear. Also, by allowing a mix of TLs, you can optimize in the direction you are interested in. Why pay for TL12 armor if you plan on using a ton of TL11 shields instead? Note that TL12 equipment would be much more expensive than potentially 'good enough' equivalents at lower TL, similarly, TL9 would be very cheap, and that might be worthwhile, even if the system purchased is slower, larger, and more power hungry.

Well, I've made the offer, it's there for grabs. Let me know.

I just got three or four ship building books to look over soon. I was wondering all along why we were discussing frozen death soldiers and warship design if we are a peaceful federation (ala Trek). When I was thinking about some TL 11 stuff, I was thinking just the beginings of some energy and bio tech, nothing super awesome yet. So if we are doing a Trek feel, we might ditch the death from above angle. Or, we can go with a Dominion War feel where the Federation was producing warships against the Dominion and Borg. OR, we use the Traveller stuff all the way and it's all built for us, it'll just take a long time to learn.

What the fuck is a somophlange?

durden wrote:I just got three or four ship building books to look over soon. I was wondering all along why we were discussing frozen death soldiers and warship design if we are a peaceful federation (ala Trek). When I was thinking about some TL 11 stuff, I was thinking just the beginings of some energy and bio tech, nothing super awesome yet. So if we are doing a Trek feel, we might ditch the death from above angle. Or, we can go with a Dominion War feel where the Federation was producing warships against the Dominion and Borg. OR, we use the Traveller stuff all the way and it's all built for us, it'll just take a long time to learn.

What the fuck is a somophlange?

Ahh, the premise behind the frozen death soldiers was that at least one of the hundred thousand plus races in the GF still remembers how to fight, and your mission is dangerous, and going about it unprepared for battle would be foolish. I mean, you guys *can* build a weaponless ship and defy me to give you a fight for your first encounter. I think all in all some cool action would be worthwhile.

Besides, I'd be rather surprised if a single current GURPS book includes enchantments and magical artifacts with their ship building rules.

I like the idea of different species bringing in their tech. Still, there is a certain ethical issue involved in the use of such fighting forces. If we are a civilization that's dealt with these issues in a have a nice 'ole cup of shut the fuck up type attitude, then ok.

though I had intended to avoid fleshing out all the details of the Galactic Federation, especially since it's a utopian idea, I will go ahead and say this.

the GF will not rule out the use of force to maintain equality, peace, and freedom. And not the kind of 'equality' in an orwellian society. The idea here is that they are a genuinely good, freedom loving, equality maintaining society. So, I know about a third of the players have posted characters involving constant warfare in their planet histories, and I'm sorta just not going to argue that point much more. There hasn't been war within the GF for hundreds of years, so sure, there have been disputes about territory and all that jazz, you can put whatever you want in your history and that's fine.

Part of your platform for negotiating with new peoples is that your society HAS maintained peace for so long, and whatever violence there was in the last few hundred years or more has been the work of subversive groups bent on dominating people, not liberating them.

however, some people are warlike by nature and require a demonstration of military might before they are willing to curl up alongside the GF. It's not a bad offer, by the way, to come join the GF. But in the setting I'm trying to run in, things are black and white. A people are evil and oppressive or they aren't. I will try to avoid double crosses and backstabs as much as I can. Of course, a peaceful society could and will have corrupt individuals subverting its society. The GF would never stand for this and would work to bring those people to justice. Suppose you encounter a hostile race that has significant military power, who seeks to dominate, oppress, or wipe out other peoples? Well, this is where the grey area that we know to be true has to be ignored. Those people are evil, and, though they should be given the opportunity to turn their ways around, they might be wiped out to preserve freedom and life. Is this ethical in todays world? Probably not. I don't think a solution has ever come about for people desirious of war.

So, because your characters are from worlds of your own design, rather that from the GF as an undefined entity, you may view the ethical dilemmas you are presented with in any light you choose. Is life totally free in the GF? Well no, you can't go around hurting people and burning kittens. Kittens are a protected species in the GF.

I am very much trying to hit the feel of old black and white pulp sci fi epics. Lensman, if any of you have read it, the original star trek, battlestar galactica, heck, even star wars, to a degree.

So, you are the good guys. You bring your guns and troops. Now either convince the bad guys to quit, or wipe them out.

Most of the meat of this game will be exploration and problem solving. I do plan to give you puzzles to solve, both tactical and physical. Unfortunately for us, there will be combat, on the boards. I do plan to run a live game while I'm in town in august, but there will be combat before then. (it will probably be several games over the course of my stay), and I do plan to come home for next christmas, when we'll have three or four weeks to play with. So, epic, story consolidating elements should be coming together for the live games, so we don't wind up cataloging minutia during one of our few actual game sessions.

So yes, on to the big decision. The more I think about it the more I like the idea of setting up a 'better' resource for ship design. i am going to have to do so anyway, merely to be able to create a variety of ships and vessels, such that they would be representative of the tech levels and ideology of the races that you'll encounter.

If you guys want more detail and discussion about your roots, the Gf, then that's fine. Also, if everyone agrees to the 'mini game', we can have a forum where we detail the worlds we came from, and the cultures there, in return for points.

Cool beans. Thanks for clearing me up. I get what you are going for now.

Here's my background so far. Any recommneded tweeks?

Ignac was born and raised on the “primitive” reptilian world of Grimlack IV. The son of a shaman (his mother, a powerful woman in the matriarchy) and a pilot, Ignac got the best of both worlds as his connections to his people’s culture remains strong to this day and his embracement and understanding of new technology experienced through his work with his father allows him to easily adapt and thrive in the Federation. His mother, Swamp Mother Threenicar, raised him in the old ways of his people. Learning natural healing techniques, combat, dance, dream visions, and hunting, Ignac seems an odd fit for a starship engineer. It was through his work with his father, Frikkin, that Ignac gained a knowledge and love for technology. Frikkin was a test pilot for a new program on the planet meant to integrate the old technology with the new Federation technology. This new hybrid program already showed promise in energy and medical technology.
Ignac is a bit of an oddity on his planet due to his current career choice. While there are Reptilians in the Federation, they typically hold small, menial jobs and are treated with a good deal of paternalistic discrimination. Grimlack IV was colonized over a century ago by the Federation to provide a strategic base along the border of [insert enemy group here] space. Nobles on his family are also not likely to leave their affluent setting. As a head Swamp Shaman, his mother is in the ruling elite on the planet. That is, the ruling elite of what little temporal autonomy the Federation allows. It is hoped that by selectively modernizing, the Reptilians may officially join the Federation in a more equal footing, not as the benevolently conquered.
Showing skill in tinkering and engineering, Ignac found berth aboard a stationed Federation ship. The ship spent years making several extended runs into a nearby system, doing mostly scientific exploration. Months in space in a system that was full of nebulas and communication-disrupting radiation made for a claustrophobic environment. Ignac soon became known as the unofficial ship’s counselor. Despite his naturally repulsive appearance, his honest and generous nature won over the captain. Soon acting as a trusted advisor to the captain, Ignac found opportunities to increase his work and skill as the stereotypes plaguing his race became less of an issue. After years of such exemplary service, it was time for his commanding officer to move on. Unable to take Ignac to his new assignment, the captain called in a favor to secure Ignac a chief engineering position aboard a new starship he would help to develop and build. Eager to take on more responsibility and further prove the capabilities of his race, Ignac brings enthusiasm, skill, and some old reptilian wisdom to his new crew.
The Reptilians, calling themselves “Krikagorn,” or “people of the earth,” inhabit three of the four continents on their world. The largest of which is heavily covered in wetlands. Space faring at the time of first contact by the Federation, the Reptilians had limited contact with neighboring species. It is likely that their race was visited centuries or more before by a much more technologically advanced species. The uninhabited continent is a deadzone, a desert incapable of supporting any life. High radiation levels and the extreme environmental conditions kept scientists out until the Federation put together several expeditions into the region. It was discovered that the area was once teeming with life and supported an extremely diverse ecosystem. Several ruins were located, though conditions in the region (high levels of an unknown radiation and fierce sandstorms) prohibited further exploration. The ruins suggested a higher technology level was present, though whether it was Reptilian or the invading species are still undetermined. Given the potentials for harnessing new energy sources and discovering unknown species and spatial anomalies in the nearby region of space, it seems unlikely the Federation will further explore the desolate region of Grimlack IV.
The Reptilian species is highly adaptable. Several millennia ago they showed little signs of advancement, sporting the larger bodies, cold-blooded systems, and predatory tendencies of a primitive and undeveloped race. Geologic data and archeological evidence is obscured in the strata between a period of two and three thousand years ago. It is during this period that some unknown stimulus ushered the development of the race. Soon, predatory hunting practices turned to a controlled system of agriculture and animal husbandry. Many of the large mammalian races inhabiting the planet became extinct during this period, which was perhaps the impetus for this change. Fishing remains the primary means of subsistence. The oceans on Grimlack IV are thriving, full of a large variety of mammalian and fish species. An early biological development assisted the Reptilians in their fishing practices, though few today possesses this racial advantage. Early Reptilians possessed a powerful toxin in their fangs that once delivered through a bite, would cause the prey to swell greatly, forcing them to float to the surface thereby providing a simple catch for pack mates. Early Reptilians also sported large, vicious claws capable of burrowing for food or simply slashing upon the think hides worn by many land dwellers they once hunted. Today, these claws are much smaller and are surprisingly dexterous, allowing Reptilians to manipulate fine tools with impressive ease.

I like it. It's good, and it fits fairly well. As long as the federation had their strategic base there some hundreds or thousands of years ago, it all fits perfectly.